A killer app for modern Vajrayana?

In the tech world, a “killer app” is a single program so compelling that people will buy a whole system just to run it. For example, many people bought the Xbox to play the game Halo. Some bought early smartphones for Google Maps with GPS. Then they found other uses…

Mindfulness meditation has been the killer app for mainstream modern Buddhism. Its benefits were so obvious that millions of people bought into Buddhism just to learn it.

Could modern tantric Buddhism have a killer app?

It would need to be:

  • obviously effective
  • with clearly different results from mindfulness meditation
  • easy to learn
  • easy to practice, requiring minimal time, equipment, or preparation
  • naturalistic and secular—not supernatural or overtly religious
  • teachable by people with relatively modest qualifications

I have defined the method of Buddhist tantra as “unclogging energy by uniting spaciousness and passion,” so that’s how the killer should work. I’ve defined the aim as “mastery, power, play, and nobility,” so that’s what the killer app should produce.

(How many people would buy into a whole system to get that?)

Surprisingly, there is a practice that might deliver on all those promises. It is one of the “windhorse” practices of Shambhala Training.


This is a direct, simple, quick, and effective method for unclogging energy by cutting through whatever gunk has accumulated in the channel. The instructions fit in a single paragraph. You can do the complete practice in 60 seconds, or you can do it all day long in retreat. You can easily mix windhorse into everyday life. It requires no equipment or preparation, and no one can see you are doing it. It is spook-free, woo-free, and is (or was) taught by people with no fancy title like “Lama” or “Roshi.”

I find windhorse particularly useful in preparing for difficult interpersonal interactions, like an awkward phone call or an important business presentation. It provides clarity, confidence, good humor, and a quality of attention that is both focussed and spacious.

Windhorse was, I thought, underplayed by Shambhala Training. It was not hyped, and maybe it should have been. Some students found it hugely valuable, but others may have missed its importance. Windhorse was the first tantric practice taught in the system, and perhaps the curriculum was impatient to move on to the more complex practices taught later. (I believe Shambhala Training was rushed and incomplete due to Trungpa Rinpoche’s untimely death.)

Much more could be taught about windhorse than was. The practice encapsulates the whole of Vajrayana; one might approach all the rest as unfoldings from it.

The instructions for mindfulness meditation also fit in one paragraph, but you can continue to deepen your understanding of it with experience, books, and a mentor, for years. The same is true of windhorse.


Unfortunately, the practice itself is secret, so I can’t explain any details here.

Actually, I learned two windhorse practices, superficially quite different. I would not be surprised if Trungpa Rinpoche taught others as well. Meanwhile, on the web I’ve found instructions for two newer windhorse practices that read like New Age parodies of the ones I received. (Maybe these are taught now in place of the originals? I don’t know.)

Secrecy means the practice I have in mind can’t be reused in a new system. It can’t be the killer app. However, because it meets the criteria I listed for a killer app, its existence shows that something else like it might do the job.

Prerequisites and caveats

There may be a good reason for keeping windhorse secret: it may be better not to know about it until you are ready.

According to theory, the “base” or prerequisite for tantra is recognition of emptiness. Without that, it won’t function. Likewise, I was taught that windhorse was only effective if you have done hundreds of hours of shamatha-vipashyana meditation, in which you find emptiness and clarity. Windhorse taps into that store of experience, and releases it like water through a high-pressure hose.

If that’s right, trying windhorse before you are ready might spoil it for you. You’d get no results. Since the method sounds quite bizarre, you’d think "well, that’s stupid and doesn’t work—this stuff is worthless.” In fact, even reading a description of the method might spoil it for you.

On the other hand, I am somewhat skeptical that you need hundreds of hours of meditation experience before windhorse can have an effect. I can see why that might be true—but I can also imagine that it might work powerfully for some people who have never meditated. I would love to be able to do the experiment—to try teaching it to non-meditators, to see how it goes for them. Obviously, that’s not possible—but it might be possible for other, similar methods.

One other caveat. I mentioned that the method is quite bizarre. In fact, it’s rather creepy. It could be scary. I wouldn’t be surprised if two-thirds of the non-meditators who volunteered to learn it would refuse to try once they heard how it works.

I like creepy Buddhism—obviously, since I have a whole web site devoted to it—and I think creepiness has a specific religious value. But creepy is not what you want in a killer app. An introductory practice should accessible for as many people as possible, which implies creating or finding a non-creepy one.


Author: David Chapman

Author of the book Meaningness and several Buddhist sites.

45 thoughts on “A killer app for modern Vajrayana?”

  1. Another tease. Either your building to a killer post, or you are hope to stir some want-to-be future secularist Tantra into action.
    Another post where I read and say, “And so…..”
    But I wager your imagined audience is now fellow Vajra folks?

    I’ve done behavior experiments over the years but I don’t think they are anything at all like you are talking about.

    For example, for two solid months in a foreign land, when meeting someone, I would lie and make up a story about my background and who I was. The condition I made for myself was that the story had to be boring. I was exploring the my habitual self-images and presentations.

    Others used to stress my Germanic background have been, hanging around nude in the house and intentionally putting my arms on folks shoulders during the day for greetings. Both of these, especially the later, was very against my nature and thus interesting.

    But from your essay, I have no clue what sort of practice: eating feces, laying on top of a grave at night?

  2. This Tibetan secrecy business is sooo 16th century. Not exactly alluring. Dzogchen seems to move much faster to modernization than tantra these days (take Tenzin Wangyal or Jackson Peterson, for example, both very accessible). Less secrecy, less emphasis on wearing funny hats and doing 100K prostrations, and an emphasis on results. I wonder why Dzogchen is conspicuously absent in your posts? Do you consider it as falling under tantra?

  3. @ Sabio — Oh, gosh, no, nothing like any of that. Like I said, not creepy. The windhorse practice is described as a “visualization,” which is almost perfectly misleading, but it’s an “internal” practice—there’s no motion of the body involved. It’s also abstract—not a “visualization” of anything concrete, which is one reason “visualization” is a poor description.

  4. You don’t need 1000s of hours of meditation or millions of prostrations. You can easily get a glimpse of rigpa by reading a book on Dzogchen or watching a youtube video and some dedication. IMO all this lineage and secrecy business is just a marketing trick. The biggest secret is that experiencing “enlightenment” is quite trivial – a joke really. True enough, stabilising rigpa is a different ballgame.

  5. @ Apollo — Yes, I think the secrecy stuff is 98% self-interested nonsense. And, yes, it’s definitely not a coincidence that nearly all the main modernizers of Vajrayana have had a Dzogchen focus—in addition to those you’ve mentioned, Trungpa Rinpoche himself, Tarthang Tulku, Namkhai Norbu, and my teacher Ngak’chang Rinpoche.

    And, my personal practice is much more oriented toward Dzogchen than tantra. A few years ago, I thought teaching “Dzogchen straight-up” would be the way to go. Then I changed my mind about that. I wrote a brief section about why a couple years ago. I think that a radically modernized tantra is what is most needed now, more than Dzogchen, actually.

    Some people can get a glimpse of rigpa by reading a book; most can’t, I think. You are probably exceptional. And, yes, stabilizing it is seriously difficult, and tantra can help even if your main practice is Dzogchen.

    I actually like the hats, although I’d feel idiotic wearing one myself. (For wrathful empowerments, my Lamas wear Seriously Creepy Hats that are genuinely a bit scary. That’s cool.) Such things can be inspiring, so long as you don’t make the mistake of thinking they are concretely meaningful. Prostrations I’m happy to do without (my lineage doesn’t require them), but I can see how they are useful for some people.

  6. So, is there any connection between the “ritual” in the former post and the “app” in this one? Seems like you might be pointing toward a practice method. Waiting for further teasing… :)

  7. David, does the Aro tradition include equivalents of the windhorse practices you learned? If so are they more ‘spooky’?

  8. The discussion is reminding me of the procedure for producing an open source version of a proprietary program: programmers who have not seen the source are given the required behaviours and left to come up with something that acts the same way. How to verify this in the case of Tantra is an interesting question. An image of Richard Stallman as a tantric deity (or perhaps a guardian of open practice) has come to mind.

    One modernising teacher who has not, I think, cropped up in discussions here is Reggie Ray http://www.dharmaocean.org/

  9. “Secret” has an expanded repertory of meanings in Vajrayana; I think recognizing this is important. For instance, the ‘sex chakra’ is referred to ‘the secret chakra;’ if I think about this for more than a hot second, I can infer that this is not out of prudery, but in recognition of its being 100% personal, specific to the individual body, non-generalizable– and thus not public, not standardized, not for mass consumption, approval, or exposition.

    This is an affront, perhaps, to prevalent current sensibilities; but then some of us don’t mind “archaic.”

  10. My understanding of windhorse is that it’s the Siberian/Tibetan shamanic term for one’s personal psychic energy, otherwise known as chi (Chinese) or ki (Japanese). Various practices within the different traditions can affect one’s psychic energy in a variety of ways.

    I think these traditions depend on an animistic ontology, and so at face value, they can be difficult for anyone holding a naturalistic understanding of being. I do think one can fluctuate, vibrate if you will, between the 2 ontologies. How to do this is perhaps, a reformulation of the project you discuss.

  11. To everyone, especially Duff, I’d like to apologize for an annoying secret. I didn’t see any other way to discuss this topic—there’s no public practice that fits the bill, that I know of.

    @ Apollo — Aro is much more traditional than what I’m fantasizing about here. However, if you are curious, Lama Bar-ché Dorje is teaching in Eindhoven, Netherlands, later this month. Closer, there are Aro groups in Hamburg, Berlin, and Stockholm (see the contact page) but I don’t know how active they are.

    @ jamie — I guess the windhorse practice could be described as a ritual, in that it has a series of steps that you do in a fixed order, and they are partly symbolic. It’s entirely internal, though; you could do it at your desk at work and no one would notice. And it only takes a minute.

    What I had in mind in the last post were participatory group rituals, typically for five or more people, lasting at least twenty minutes, generally involving props, singing, and maybe even peculiar hats. (This describes both Neopagan rituals and tantric empowerment rituals.)

    @ Josh — Unfortunately, no, there’s nothing closely analogous in the Aro gTér to this practice. There’s been a recent hint that there may something like it in the associated Gésar terma, which is still being revealed. (Lama Bar-ché Dorje is the foremost teacher of that terma, btw.)

    @ Robin — That’s a funny analogy—and it’s also potentially accurate. However, while secrecy still applies to some specific practices, tantric principles are now all public. So it’s feasible for people who are bound to secrecy about specifics to innovate new practices based on the principles (and experience with practices that remain secret).

    I like Reggie Ray’s work a lot, yes!

    @ Nick — I don’t see much similarity here. However, I don’t know much about LaVey. Maybe you’d like to expand on this? (My series on black magic does have a significant similarity—but that’s a quite different project.)

    @ Kate — True, and a good point. However, windhorse is “secret” in the usual English language sense. It was taught quite widely, to large groups, so it’s not individually secret. The experience itself is extremely intimate—it’s a tsa lung practice—so it’s “secret” in that sense.

  12. @ atomicgeography — Sorry not to include you in the last reply; your comment arrived as I was composing it.

    Yes, windhorse is related to chi. Chi is a “woo” concept: vaguely supernatural/metaphysical. People get away with claiming all sorts of silly things about it.

    In Shambhala Training, as it was taught when I was a student, the presentation was non-woo (compatible with naturalism). It was experiential: do this practice, and you’ll probably get a result that feels like so-and-so. It didn’t reify windhorse in the way chi often is, as some sort of magic fluid or something.

  13. “Yes, windhorse is related to chi. Chi is a “woo” concept: vaguely supernatural/metaphysical. People get away with claiming all sorts of silly things about it.

    In Shambhala Training, as it was taught when I was a student, the presentation was non-woo (compatible with naturalism). It was experiential: do this practice, and you’ll probably get a result that feels like so-and-so. It didn’t reify windhorse in the way chi often is, as some sort of magic fluid or something.”

    I used to think “Qi/Chi” was maddeningly vague, elusive– “woo,” in your terms– until I began to understand that it is SO experiential that real masters speak of it very little, and with great circumspection. Which leaves much of the so-called information being bruited about to those so ignorant that they think it is a matter of words and information (and bad analogies, like “fluids running in channels”).

    The best approach to understanding Qi or Windhorse or Lung– is to seek a teacher who can help you experience for yourself that aspect of being that is neither limited to materiality nor separate from it.

  14. (yes, want instructions, ah attraction!)
    I’m wondering who the market for the killer app is? Tantra requires experience of emptiness as a base, yes? So something that requires, generally, a couple of years of meditation is never going to be a killer app?

  15. Trying things that meet your description until finding a few that have interesting effects – good idea, or good way to get eaten by a grue?

  16. @ Antonio — ROFL!

    @ Bruce — There may be a substantial and rapidly growing market of people who have done mindfulness meditation for a while and are ready for something more (and better suited to modern life and values).

    @ M — Yeah, I wouldn’t recommend exploring without a lantern. However, if you do hear a grue approaching, remember the magic word!

  17. @Apollo: As a Nordic member of Aro Sangha, I would like to add to what David said. Far as I know, there is a solid group Aro practitioners in Hamburg, and I do think they meet regularly – I do not know the details. In Sweden there are a few practitioners. The most active group of Aro practitioners in Nordic countries is here in Helsinki, Finland. Lama Bar-ché lives here and we meet practically every week.

  18. Why mention the existence of this technique if we cannot access or at least research about it? What are the “pre-requisites” to use it, aside of the countless hours of previous meditation?

  19. @ Al — I can’t remember exactly what the conditions were. Whatever it was, certainly it wasn’t legally binding… but I did a reasonably thorough web search and couldn’t find instructions anywhere, so it is actually secret. That is quite surprising, really, since very little in Vajrayana is. Nearly everything, you can find on the web somewhere, if you know what you are looking for.

    If there were no possibility of finding or creating an alternative practice, and if I were going to teach stuff like this, and if it is no longer taught by the Shambhala organization, then I would seriously consider breaking secrecy on the basis of “necessity” or “loyalty to the lineage that no longer exists.” Otherwise, there is no point in my breaking the secrecy, and I respect the lineage’s strictures to the extent that it does still exist.

    @ Alvaro — The answers to your questions are in the post itself :-)

    Why mention the existence of this technique if we cannot access or at least research about it?

    Because it may be possible to find or create an alternative that can be made more easily available.

    What are the “pre-requisites” to use it, aside of the countless hours of previous meditation?

    It is—or was—part of the Shambhala Training curriculum. I don’t know whether they still teach it, or if they teach a different windhorse practice.

  20. Unfortunately, no, there are none; New York would be the closest. I believe Lama Shardröl has taught a few times in Vermont, but I don’t know whether she’ll ever do that again.

  21. Tenzin Wangyal has several teachings that could fit this description. Taking refuge in yourself by connecting to silence, stillness and space. Moving your awareness through five chakra’s. Connecting to the 5 elements, and so on.

  22. David, it seems this technique is still part of the Shambala training (I checked their curriculum last week) but I cannot help continue thinking about the “Elitism” of not having a powerful method like this available to the general public, since you have to complete a (long) series of training before having the chance of knowing the “killer app” :-D. What about the people that does not live near a Shambala / Aro Center or does not have access to a qualified teacher? (By the way, I saw that Shambala is starting something called “Shambala Online” to teach certain but not all their courses for the unfortunate ones that cannot be in the retreats / training sessions). Somehow I feel the “secrecy” defeats the purpose of helping all the sentient beings the Buddhism talks about…

  23. @ Apollo — Thanks, yes, he’s as close to teaching “modern Vajrayana” as anyone currently.

    @ Alvaro — Shambhala still teach something called “windhorse,” but I’m not sure if it’s the same practice I described here. I’ve found recent descriptions of windhorse practices (two different ones) published publicly by authorized teachers, and both were quite different from what I learned. The new methods may be great for some people, I don’t know; they seem weaksauce by comparison with the older ones. However, the older methods may also be taught, although not made public. I don’t know.

    I mostly agree that Vajrayana secrecy is outmoded and unhelpful. (I can see some justification for it in a few cases. The “better not to know” link in the post explains why.)

    I think the main issue is access, not secrecy. You can read detailed descriptions of most tantric practices in public English-language sources. There is actually very little that is secret.

    However, no one seems to be able to learn tantra by reading about it and trying it on their own. It seems to require personal guidance. This is a problem, for lots of reasons, but we’re probably stuck with it.

    Since personal guidance is mostly unavailable, tantra is effectively inaccessible, even though almost none of it is secret.

  24. David, I wonder if the primary reason people seem unable to learn tantra from books is not that they need a teacher but that they lack the experiential prerequisites. There are a number of online communities that have lots of people with hundreds or thousands of hours of samatha-vipassana practice and an experiential understanding of emptiness from practices inspired by the Theravadan traditions (such as the Dharma Overground and KFD forum). These people tend to strongly prefer essentialized practices presented in a way that makes it clear what the function of each aspect of the practice is. Most explanations of tantric practices I’ve come across do not fit those requirements well, so I’m not surprised they haven’t caught on much in those communities so far. My prediction is that if tantric practices were presented to such a community, many of the experienced practitioners would be able to make them work. Of course, it’s still extremely useful to have an experienced practitioner to get advice from, but this is also true for samatha-vipassana (and more so than most seem to acknowledge).

    An anecdote in favor of this is that someone posted detailed instructions on tummo on the Kenneth Folk Dharma discussion forum a while back and several people reported noticing the effects fairly quickly. Those instructions still leave much to be desired from my perspective, but they are way better than most of what I’ve been able to find.

  25. Jasen, thanks for this!

    There are a number of online communities that have lots of people with hundreds or thousands of hours of samatha-vipassana practice and an experiential understanding of emptiness from practices inspired by the Theravadan traditions (such as the Dharma Overground and KFD forum).

    Yes, I’ve been thinking about that! More generally, there are probably way more people with experiential understanding of emptiness in America today than there ever were in India or Tibet, because the practices that lead to it are widely available and people actually do them. So there is a large potential “market” for tantra here.

    These people tend to strongly prefer essentialized practices presented in a way that makes it clear what the function of each aspect of the practice is.

    Yes; I think this would be true for everyone! Tantra got so baroque and obscure only due to institutional incentives that had nothing to do with individual accomplishment. Simple but powerful practices combined with clear explanations of principles and functions should be a hallmark of modern Vajrayana. And, in fact, to the extent that modern Vajrayana has existed, it’s had that.

    My prediction is that if tantric practices were presented to such a community, many of the experienced practitioners would be able to make them work. Of course, it’s still extremely useful to have an experienced practitioner to get advice from, but this is also true for samatha-vipassana (and more so than most seem to acknowledge).

    Yes… However, it’s important to understand that tantra is not mainly a collection of practices. It’s also not mainly a collection of doctrines (a “philosophy”). It’s mainly an attitude. The approach the Kenneth Folk and Daniel Ingram and others have taken to separating vipassana as a practice from its own attitude—the attitude of renunciation—has succeeded brilliantly. It’s possible the same would work with tantra, but I doubt it.

    This issue of “attitude, not practices” is difficult to explain. It’s one reason teachers are so important—you can learn practices from a manual, but not attitudes so easily. And, it is why mythology is important: fiction is a powerful way of conveying an attitude.

    I’ve written a long blog post about this, but my pre-publication reviewer said it was a mess, and she was right. I may fix it, or maybe that will never happen…

    Thanks for the link to the tummo instructions! Those are the most detailed I’ve seen, too. (Tummo isn’t part of the system I practice, so I haven’t had much personal instruction.)

    several people reported noticing the effects fairly quickly

    I’m curious about whether they experienced the sensations and altered states the practice develops, or also changes in the way they related to everyday life. The instructions’ author wrote:

    I mean you can’t do anything wrong, feeling strong and sensitive at the same time, having a rich bouquet of spiritual feelings, being relaxed, charismatic and attractive, unlimited rich sexual energy/life and girls running after you. I had times when I made friends with a handful of people a day, just by walking into a bar or the supermarket, starting a talk or letting them talk to you, getting involved in their lives, invited for dinner, simply because I had no fear. Doubt doesn’t exist for the knowing. It’s the queen of tantric practices. With time you get so strong that you kind of see through yourself…

    This is the tantric attitude manifesting. My hypothesis is that if you practice tummo without the attitude, you get experiences, but not these life changes so much. But I have zero evidence for that!

    My hypothesis also is that if you don’t have the attitude, you won’t stick with the practice. The sensations and on-cushion mental experiences are odd and enjoyable, but so what?

    By the way, windhorse is similar to tummo, differing in degree but not type. It’s much simpler and easier and safer, and has the same general effect, although obviously not as dramatic.

  26. Hey David, when you talk about wind horse practice are you talking about the stroke practice or the short Ashe visualization? I completed the last Warriors Assembly several years ago, right before they stopped teaching both at Warriors Assembly. Truth to tell, never really got into either practice.

  27. Hi Michael — definitely not the stroke practice. It might be the same thing as “the short Ashe visualization,” but it wasn’t called that when I learned it, so I don’t know!

    I liked the stroke practice and did it fairly frequently during the couple of years I stayed with Shambhala after doing Warriors Assembly. I’ve almost never done it since, mostly because it’s a hassle.

  28. Yes, that seems quite likely. Now that I think back to it, it took me quite a lot of practicing before it “took” and started to work. Maybe that is evidence that it can’t actually work as an introductory practice after all!

  29. I watched the webcast. Inner teaching starts around 13 minutes in, at least on the webcast from the original website. I don’t know the Shambala windhorse practice. My sense was that this teaching was possibly pointing at some deeper practices, but these were not made explicit.

    If you don’t mind reading my notes made solely for my own consumption, here they are:

    inner raising windhorse-lung ta– find inner space 13:38 recognize if there is any effort, let it go. space is pervasive open. there is also a sense of knowing. in that space, that awareness, there is arising of warmth. arising of wind, of pure energy. bring into that space your prayers or wishes for coming new year. dissolve all stories of the past in that unbounded space. allow lights of awareness to show you path for future. feel the warmth which will support the qualities to arise support build your future 18.28 let these make seeds deep in the soil for future benefit of others and yourself.

  30. What about Kum Nye and Tsa Lung Trul Khor? Wouldn’t they fit your model if taken from a Tantrik perspective?? Especially if you merge Namkhai Norbu’s and Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche’s practices on this topic.

  31. Yes, I’m enthusiastic about those too!

    They may take more practice to get results, and be accessible to fewer people because of physical requirements, than the windhorse practice. But, I don’t know for sure.

  32. No matter which lineage they come from, most of Kum Nye and Tsa Lung practices can be performed easily from 5 to 108 y-old, maybe even when slightly sick or worse. Even though I’m friend to Shambhala sangha here, I’ve never entered into the wind horse practice at all. Maybe I’m not exactly the right person to this inquiry, since I’m very fond of self-arising Yidam practice as it could be understood by Aleister Crowley (taking his writings on the Ars Goetia’s translation he finished): a ritual of invocation that, instead of suppressing the senses as would a brahmin or bikkhu do, actually floods them with pure visionary imagery, sound, movement, scents, etc.
    Of course, Trulkhor itself demands younger bodies and minds, especially in this case of merging lineages and fusing the result with this Yidam thru Dzogchen Sem-de and also the Naro Chöe Druk from Mahamudrá. This is of course what I call the crème de la crème for current youngsters from 15 to 55 to really enter Anuttara Tantra/Ati Yoga while helping their bodies become a youth-vase (a term employed at Thröma Nakmo Mipham’s sadhana). I still believe in long retreats (but not boring) as a counterweight to routine, as much as I would say we can’t dispel leisure.
    Maybe you should check Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche’s 3 Doors program (I won’t put the URL here since i’m not advocating nor advertising it). It is a very interesting approach of Tantra and Dzogchen from a totally, totally, lay and natural perspective.
    This confirms what can also be seen in Japan within Togakure Ninpo Ryû and other Shugendo-aligned practices: they use the San Mitsu (3 secrets) or Mikkyo: body (especially mudrás), speech /breathing and mind techniques to provoke specific results, all derived from Kongo-shô, Japanese Vajrayana (Shingon/Tendai), which can be used to compare to Tibetan Buddhism and help thell what is or not Vajra in it (including Yundrung Bön in the sack).
    Another great approach to a killer Vajra app would be Dream Yoga (Milam Naldjor or Svapnadarsananga): a natural, spontaneous and ludic activity of our brains that, when interfered in the right way, can reveal unexpected new potentials to be discovered and produce strong results with little effort while using a supposedly wasted time, which is sleep. Plus, if someone is academic, the Sutta Pitaka mentions that existence is like a dream. Milam Yoga is a venue to experiment this in a very much palpable way.
    Besides physical Yoga (even when done smoothly for children or old people) and dream Yoga, I don’t see many exits to find a killer app and finally bring Vajrayana to 21st century landscape.
    Of course, once I have the Wind Horse practice, I may change my mind entirely….

  33. Oooh, obviously, some kind of reinterpretation of Tsog/Ganachakra could be interesting, but most of people would run if we were to serve a psychedelic Amrita/Soma at such nude gatherings… ahahaha :P

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